It's funny. So now, Okay, and then you go.
If you, please stand at your angle for the.
I, to the flag of the United States of America and to the problem for which stands, 1, 100, and, one, and 2, the public for which stands, 100, and 2, the problem for which stands, 100, and, 80,
Thank you.
So we wanted to do a little bit. Of an overview. We attended a meeting last weekend.
I guess it was. And realize that we're not a lot of people that didn't understand.
The difference between the association, the district. And how we operate. So we're just gonna do a free phone review.
She makes the easiest way to explain the areas of responsibility are if you think about the property itself so the residential buildings and the parking structures Those are their common elements.
So you own those. You own a fractional chair of your lobby elevators area right around your building.
Heard Gardens is an HL and they are tasked with maintaining that property.
It doesn't own any real state. Just, maintains and repairs the common elements.
That is those residential buildings and parking structure. They are completely controlled by the HOA. The district doesn't have anything to do with that.
And that's why it's sometimes the answer is that you know you need to talk to the other board or whatever.
Yeah, that's where that comes from. The HPA board then hires the management staff.
And they supervise the management. All the other property, all the non-residential property, the clubhouse restaurant, golf course.
Everything else. That is actually an owned by the metropolitan district. That's how they finance the purchase of those properties.
So the district is the owner of the properties.
And as such, there's been, that makes it very clear that the district has the same rights as any other property.
It's legally responsible to oversee expenditure public funds. That came up and it'll be.
Public funds are any funds the district has or If we're not just talking about property tax, everybody knows that the property tax it's paid, Well, when you pay for your lunch at the restaurant.
That becomes public. The dues that you pay, that portion that is, to the district that come to the district is directly, those are public funds.
So any funds that the district has because it's a closet governmental enemy. Those are public funds and we operate under different.
We're required to see that the expenditures are appropriate and that they're reasonable.
We have to maintain and manage the properties for the benefit of the district. And that means the benefit of.
That all of the electors in the district, which is all of you. So that is, that is where the beneficial interest goes.
We cannot delegate the oversight or the policy or financial response. Okay. The district cited, HDMI to be, the day to day.
You can do that. You have any documents?
Good afternoon. I'm going to speak about the governing documents which are located on both websites, HGA and the district website.
And so you can see the differences of how, both associated, both, boards are covered.
My mom and self composed rules that are written by both boards. The higher the ball, a rule is on this list that you see in front of you determines its priority.
So the HP declaration supersedes and takes over, takes priority over their bylaws, and the file laws take presence over the procedure memoranda.
So we'll start with the HGA. They were covered by the US Constitution. Colorado Constitution.
Colorado, revise state statutes, title 38. Commonly called Kiwa. Yeah. If you're in HGA or HGA,
Oh.
Actually, rules, and it was a name. I mean, which again are written by, board members and residents who support that and you are involving that in that process.
And going to those meetings that talk about those. And the HDA also has specific policies that they have written and procedure memoranda and that was what they call them PMs.
I was a PM when I first came here. It took a little while to figure it out. But the procedure of them around to really tell you how HDA is run and those are all on the HDA website.
It's up in the HDA website. It's up in the resource center and you can go the HDA website.
It's up in the resource center and you can go the governing documents, find everything you need for what those ps are.
Now the district runs a little bit differently. In US. Constitution, the color constitution in common.
The our statutes from Colorado come from Title 32. Title 2429 and other titles.
And you can go to website digging to all that because it is quite complicated and it's a lot of legal language.
But they are there for the public to see. And then we have our, laws that we update and amend periodically.
Okay.
We made a big change in the bylaws to bring committees back to HDMD and then you have the rules and regulations that cover all of the properties and then we also have procedure memoranda or RPMs.
And just to give you some other information about, again, giving the network a how both boards operate. Adjages are a form of public notice and those are posted on the HDA website and the district website.
You can go to both calendars, click on the calendar and you will find the meetings that are happening that month.
You click on the title and then it takes you to the announcement, the agenda, and any other supporting packets and also the Zoom information.
So if you want to know what's going on in the meeting, just go to the calendar. Same with the district, Hdds calendar.
You can click on the calendar and you can find out the agendas and any documents that are going to use during the meeting.
It could be your board, you can even look at committee meetings to see how they're doing and what's up with them too.
So in these, in the agenda and in the actions of board. You have motions. And motions are the actions that are requested to take place at a public meeting.
No action to be can be taken without a public meeting and emotion and a vote on those emotions. And the emotions will be approved or denied based upon the children who.
So let's see, HP board has 9 members and HGMD has 5. So obviously you can have a vote and there won't be a time if somebody stays for going.
Both organizations create, to document, the actions taken during a board meeting. And minutes are usually approved at the following board meeting and are kept by both the associations and the district as public records.
And just a note about minutes, I take minutes for the special meetings only. And when does the regular board meetings for us, which is wonderful.
But when we do minutes, we're not documenting every little thing everybody says. I just want to know that.
You're really reporting the actions of the board according to the agenda. Okay, I think, the next slide.
Okay. Okay, this is how policy and, banking takes place. So to have community input, we have communities.
We discuss the beginnings, the stuff like the restaurant committee. We discuss policy and project ideas. We investigate projects, obtain proposals, consider public comics, you can come to any HDMD meeting or any HDA community because they're public.
So if you have anything you want to say, please join us. And again, look at that calendar.
We can stop recommendation to provide motion information that goes to the HTMD board. Committees cannot make the policy and the rules or by using everything has to be recommended to the board and they talk it over and then they decide.
We as a committee, you have to report about what you've been up to. So again, it's a meeting of just, and I remember just the meeting of just under a record of just the actions that we're taking and just kind of highlights of what's being discussed the actions that we're taking and just kind of highlights of what's being discussed.
We have some permanent committees and they're also called standing committees. Each, committee or an ad hoc committee.
So from these, are, the committees, to, the. So I know that's a little confusing, so I know that's a little confusing, but, we can't do all the work.
Ad hoc committees are temporary for specific purpose for project. I know I think there's a couple going on right now.
And HTTP, 2 subcommittees are called special committees. And committee's file the same both the meeting laws as to the boards.
So that's just a really important part. If you want to get involved and have some say and what's going on, attend the committee meetings because that's kind of the grassroots of the organization to you.
Okay, the board members then consider the committee recommendations through motions. They need require further study, research or discussion.
Votes on the adoption of a motion to approve a project or not the policy, have to be taken so there are votes as well.
That's recorded. Like we did, well, I mean, if you did it today, but we have to make sure there's a majority of the board of directors to establish a forum and you must have a quorum in order to take action.
All actions taken by the board again must be an open public meetings. All meetings are open, Circumstances, like executive sessions, and those are closed private meetings.
Often to talk with legal counsel or to discuss a personnel matter. Something that might be confidential. Okay, executive sessions are allowed for disparate reasons for each board.
And again, the minutes of the board meetings are recorded. And again, includes support actions. That has to be in there.
And a secretary of this board, I keep copies of all the motions that have been voted on and signed.
So I felt my big purple notebook right number 2023 for all the motions that were signed or brought forward.
So I hope that helps explain how policies and rulemaking takes place for both boards.
Hey, at this time, does anyone have any questions about what we've just shared with you? Go ahead, Sean.
Wake down with.
Yeah. About executive sessions. Are they like top secret? Does the public residents get to know anything about what's going on in these sessions?
Both for HGA and HGMD. Thank you. John, executive solutions are top secret.
We don't keep minutes. We don't before, but would be court of course short time and they have to be expunged. They have to be erased.
So it truly is a top secret meeting. Now, if you look at the agenda, it will say, why don't we do a session and it's all you can now.
We're the accountability of top secret. Want to come up and ask the question. Okay, so the question is what is the transparency or the accountability for top secret?
And I guess the, the, my, would be you trust your board members. Does anyone else want to say anything?
So it will have an executive session if we're going to take an action. Then we need a motion and second and a vote to approve it and that has to be an unopened.
The district has very limited. Reasons. It can go into executive session. It's really only to, ask, specifically, all advice.
And that's to protect attorney. And it can go into second session, discuss, negotiation strategy or to instruct a negotiator.
But those are really the only 2 reasons that apply to the district. Hga has other, their, list is.
You know, come on. What about motions that are taken at a meeting? That you won't vote on and decide.
If they end up being motions that have a fair and large impact on the community. Is that anything that the community gets to give input to or is it just made by the board?
That's a long time. Okay, I'll kind of. So the cell's question is, what about motions that are made in commit your at the board level.
So at some of your, and does the community have any input on that vote or that motion? Is that what you're asking?
What I'm saying is sometimes the
And I just. Okay.
Here we go to have a motion. First of all, the motion is stated.
It's completed. And that's how.
Perhaps even presented that motion in inc. So a lot of emotions actually start at the committee level and you can have anybody there as well.
But remember, committee members cannot make the motion. Did you wanna say anything else? Do you want anything more?
Yeah, just to clarify, it's at the same way with the association and their meetings. Or is it totally different?
It's basically, I don't know how the new association takes. It's basically the same procedure.
And that's why we try to get the motions out with the agenda so that you have time to read them.
And we try to get them out a week ahead of time for the regular meetings were pretty good about that.
For the special meetings. A lot of times we're just we're putting so many in so fast, you know, get them out in time.
They have to go out at least 24 h in advance. But We try to get them out.
Before that same time to be. A lot of times there's a lot of proposals. With emotion so Take some time to meet at home.
As long as talking about voting, I want to bring up one thing when you folk done.
I'm vetoing the budget than that for the next year. It does not affect the budget for the district.
You are voting only on accepting or rejecting the Association. The district. Laws state that the district board of directors is the same.
And, the, in 1920 19 said that you had the opportunity to be told. The associations both but not not the district.
And just to go back just one more point. You know, the motions that come before the board. They've been researched quite a bit in advance.
And if you're in the more captain, for example, when we went we went to put the what I call the project manager for the restaurant.
His proposals in there, the details of the proposal, how much does cost, how, where the money comes from.
And so they are very detailed and I know some of those packets are really long there's I looked at some and you were only like 165 pages because you get a quote from a vendor that's 5 to 7 pages long and that would just be the electricity, you know, to hook up whatever we put in restaurant.
So I just really want to say very honestly, that Those emotions are well researched and thought out.
And then here's the thing, if it doesn't go forward, there's discussion and we can amend those emotions as well.
So it's never just said in stone when you see it on the website. You know, but take a look, be involved and do your own research.
Maybe, there's something else out there, new electricity better and cheaper for us. Okay? So I think there's a lot of community input when it comes to motion.
Thank you for your question. Okay, I wanted to go over a little bit this came up in our last joint meeting.
And so I wanted to make sure that you understand. Cash flow works basically. For the district. So as we discussed earlier, when you pay your news, you're paying your dues for the And part of it goes to the district.
So in this flow chart, it kinda shows you how it works. So the average dues are 6 71.
Per month. I don't know who pays that. I'm happy to say that we're not average.
So of that, 605 is going to 8 ship the HL and that's what they use to maintain the parking structures and your buildings, the funding and all that.
$66 of that. The HDA is collecting on behalf of the. District.
So that money is deposited into HDMS operating account. From that, the way this works now is HGA pays the HGMD bills.
Once they pay more than $66. Which happens often the, HGM is actually moaning the district money and they stated that last week, it's it we don't wanna be proud of that it's kind of a problem but because it's strips now without without a vote of a lecture so it creates a circumstance there that's not beneficial.
So what happens then is it pays bills, so let's say a hundred dollars and then only got $66.
What it does then is it takes money, transfers money from the HTMD and operating account.
That account is where the restaurant revenue goes to. And I put the download amount just for you, Glynn, because you Yeah, our last meeting said that the restaurant brought in more revenue than the other cost centers and she got so she right so I put the number on there for her.
That so she could see that. So that. Comes in through the restaurant. It all of course clubhouse all of that money comes into the HDMD operating account.
So what they're doing is taking, taking money from there to reimburse themselves back into the HTA.
And then HCA pays more bills. The difficulty with the situation, the way that this is working.
Is that the district can only verify checks and invoices. We when they go to pay the bills, we get a stack of invoices with the chats that are written to pay them.
We can't verify the ACH transfers. We can't reconcile the bank accounts.
And because We would have to have HGAs, they won't give us their base statements. They don't want us to see.
Their confidential information. So what we can do to resolve this. Is actually pretty simple. This is what HDMD proposed.
When they collect the dues. Take that $66 and once a month transfer that money from the HDA operating account.
Into the HGMD operating account. And pay all the bills from there. That's a much cleaner way to do it.
It means that we would see all the bills, all the expenses or the district, be able to make sure that those are reasonable and appropriate.
And give us more efficiency by knowing what we're spending on things. And the bills out of that account and then we can reconcile the statements, verify the transfers.
And we're not So, relatively simple thing to do. They kind of resolve all the problems that we've been having as far as, accountability.
You want a motion? Okay. So, what is collected for the HDMD a percentage of the It's, it's in a declaration for the disc for the district part.
It's, it's a flat amount. Because it comes from our budget. You are a.
Formula that comes out of the declaration that is there's a flat amount then there's the square footage component.
And they talked about it just. Yeah, Daniel, what happens if there is a, just take the microphone.
What happens if, there's a loss in the restaurant? Or lost in the golf course.
Or lost in the garden plots or whatever else. Yeah, does HGA have to cover that loss?
How is that? Yeah, that's a good question. So, when we comes in, does the HTML operating account that?
That's our income. The $66 that you see on here that's connected when you pay your dues.
That's the subsidy. So that's that's the loss. So that $66 comes over into the operating account and that's how we can pay on our bills.
That's that.
So you're saying that it is it is completely covered. But, but that's $66.
Which is already 3. That's, yeah, that's, that's how we do our budget.
We figure out what our expenses are gonna be and then. What a revenue, what a revenue is going to be and then that's how we get to the next subsidy amount.
Because that's Let's see. Top a little score about state budgeting. So.
This year, we kinda did a throw that. Yeah, We started it out years ago and some of the difficulty was when we were trying to discuss this with HGA is some of the directors we were talking with haven't been here long enough.
So remember, how we did done it in the past. And so what would happen normally is the cost that committee would meet with the cost center manager.
So the, restaurant pop house committee would meet with Cornac, for instance, and they would talk about what they want to do and work out of budget and that manager prepares the budget and then he would send that forward to the channel manager.
That's something. And then the general manager put together the budget. And that budget is what was, published in September.
The first part of this is the. And then that, as well, issues when it goes to the joint.
Budget and finance committee when you hear about the budget workshops. Wait home for 4 days this year.
So the first part of that is for HGA when they go over the HDA budget and the second part of it was the district's budget.
No, committee goes through and exchanges to that managers budget. And then they when they approve it.
What they do is they do a motion and though to recommend that budget to the boards. So then that budget goes to each board.
Each board can go through and accept that budget the way it is or they can change it. And then they go on whether they should adopt the budget.
We, do that. Historically, we've done it as a special meeting and we do that in October.
Where the district meets in the morning and then HGA meets in the afternoon. And we have done that because The HP budget depends on our budget.
Yeah, is part of what is, affecting your dues. So we have to establish that.
Which as I said, just think of it as the subsidy. But the district, we're, we're a record partner in the recreation district.
So we can charge a recreation fee for your use of the district. So what we're doing is we're charging that fee to make up the difference in what what the properties are running at the businesses are running loss.
So we have put our budget in the morning. So that, and then HDA goes and approves it in the afternoon.
What Craig was talking about is now the different, the separate wringle since 2,019 where our our Homeowners Association was brought in a fold.
They were associations that happened right. To veto and adopted budget. And, it's, it's a very, because it's assumed that you've elected people that you trust to create a budget.
There they adopted the budget. So the budgets considered valid. It's a valid legal, it's it's in place.
This law that we are now. Applies to us. If enough residence, but it has to be a majority of the actual owners.
Have to vote to veto a budget. If they do that. Then we are, we go back to the prior year budget until we get a budget that's not.
It's, confusing for people. Because they think they're approving the budget.
You're not approving the budget that's already approved. You're you're voting whether you're going to be doing it or not.
So we don't even usually have enough people voting. To. Yeah, to get to the level of a majority of the It asked me a majority of the unit owners.
It's not like their weather when you load free of directors and they they are elected based on a majority of the votes.
So, Is it true that if you don't vote at all? It's an automatic. Yes, for the budget.
Yeah, that's right. Well, yeah, if you don't, boom, then you're not only to be Right.
So, I'd like to give it down the Earth answer to that because it was difficult for me to understand that.
So it's like. You know, I'm just gonna say I have a 4, okay, for a locate with that in them, right?
They send me boxes to vote. I don't know what it's about. I don't send my vote in.
I would set my proxy in. I, yes, that means I support whatever the Lord decides to do.
And that to me is the analogy that fits here. If you don't turn a vote in. Then you're saying the board is right, they've approved the budget, then it's approved.
Does that make sense? Thank you. Yeah, question. You just wanna reiterate that they're voting on the HOA budget.
Not the district. Is, okay, that's a, you, move, or log does not apply to the district.
No, that's right. And I say says, 90 since 1419. There's never been. 19.
There's never been. 19. There's never been. 19. There's never been.
But I think it's short of 1,500 or so, would have to be voted on the negative side in order for it to be on the negative side in order for it to be vetoed on the negative side in order for it to be vetoed. Since, 19, that, there's never, never been enough.
That's, that's, that's, that's If you are interested in pedagogy, you renting a union, you can't vote on that budget.
You're not an owner. However, if you're voting for your boards, Owners can vote.
Ranchers can vote, multiple owners who live in this district. Okay. Okay. This.
You talk to me. Yeah. What happens if, What happens if a bloodshed is vetoed?
A lot of HGMG, the metro district. Receives what they are supposed to receive.
Does that mean the HGA then has to cut their budget? And they have to cut out some of the things that they do.
Yeah. It goes to maybe this year. You know, she's saying if our A, our, you won't change.
So it's more than the prior here. And yes, the budget, to change prior budget, yes, Right, you still pay what HGMV, but not, but HGA.
What happens? Okay. I see.
I know you guys are getting one question, so I'm not going to get through every. Crystal building 2 17.
My question is, and I don't know if this is the time or if you want to put it off to later.
But can you tell us or the group how then boards, committees, by and some budget, to have your own separate ones.
And then 2 now shall not meet or do you guys? How does that work? You know, the association.
As, Jordan, both to find this. The district has online finance. They're on IT only with districts.
So. There are very few things now that It goes from budget to brightness. They usually go directly to our premise from the district.
I'm on the budget finance committee and we don't take up too much of the districts. So, actually now.
So did you want to say anything to this? We used to attend each other's meetings. Given what's been going on and having served on the joint budget finance and now we're primarily interested in They're they never spent more 10 min on So I just didn't feel that it was worth it.
So we can, and since, well, it's a long story, but since we, since I've been treasure.
We haven't gotten all the financial statements. That we would normally get because of the difference, the journal, and stuff.
But there's cooperation when it comes to the budget time. Yes, we all get together then, but no more did we do that joint thing.
I might have one thing that this was the first year. That the district board of directors. Participated in the workshop.
Otherwise, it was all budget finance for 3 or 4 days. But, we decided, that, Basically, since we're all firmly new that we, wanted to correctly discuss this with the, general manager and the, what was he called?
Singapore. And, so we spend a day and a half on the. Actually preparing the budget for completion for.
So we could, agree on. Yeah, that never happened before.
Okay.
I just love numbers. Keep my brain working. I like to go back 5 years and see what's happening.
And so that is what they did this year and I went to all the budget meetings. And, one of the really strange things that happened was Derek has put in a budget for the restaurant.
He's the one together and I will send all those meetings. And he put it in 3 times.
The revenue that was budgeted for the restaurant to achieve. Michelle. That's crazy. And I, the, the, the, and, and try to explain that in the number of words I got put in the letter.
And I don't think anybody, but I'm here, tell you. And that was just ridiculous.
And it also increase the budget budget. Honestly, if we had 3 times or it was not quite 3 times, but more than 2 and a half notes.
Then, the sense that it's good to buy more food, have more people serving. Would also increase.
So it had an increased amount in the budget and we had ever seen. And so people now are saying, oh my God, what's happening over there in the restaurant?
Well, that's what happened. And of course, the subsidy would go up too. So that's what was in the budget.
It's in the budget right now and it is crazy. So I thought that was, and then he left.
But, So, so he had based it is like asking on the formula if we increase the powers that the restaurant is open, then all those hours would be making the same amount of money as they do at the lunchtime.
Yeah, peak time. And so, And so, you know, that was something crazy. That's how he came up with that number.
That's not gonna happen. That, that was a whole lot. I don't know, just people talking about, and there's my, too.
I seem like it's like, to me, when I first grab it. I thought, well, this is a joke.
I mean, he's just joking around. But that wasn't what happened. I was wrong.
And so it anyway. The, new, which we were, you, restaurant committee had talked about all the hours that all of the many people who talked to us and said we want this open and have breakfast.
The other one said we want this off until 8 or 9 o'clock in the evening so we can come here and have a nice day there.
After we come home to take a shower. How can you work? So, you know, he had taken all those, which there again, that would be crazy of us to be open all of those hours unless we first, not the reason, have a whole bunch of people showing up.
That's a clear blue sky to come. Okay, well, I think I'll explain this to you.
So I go quit. But anyway, this is the way this information gets, and that is a crazy thing.
So I'm happy to be here and be able to Your real numbers. Thank you. And the CEO.
The draft for us to begin negotiations on. They had a, increase at 0. There was no increase in the, they recommended, they recommend no increases in the, for the next year.
And, one of the things we had to do, of course, was replace a hundred $1,000 worth of equipment in the kitchen in order to.
Here we go. And, that raised to do $6. So. It is cost you $6 a month.
The works of the restaurant committee is doing. We have a process that worked well though this year. We met.
We met with. Jenny counts and we met with John Ray. In August, we weren't telling the budget proposal.
We got something at the entire board agreed to. And things were going well. Right, right up until before the budget.
And then it got changed. And we didn't have any. So then my time, we got to the, joint budget and finance committee meeting, we have make changes and then we're making them more on the fly.
And yes, Sharon was using some formulas and doing some guests. Trying to anticipate what would happen.
We knew that we were going to roll out any changes in the restaurant gradually and that's what we've been doing.
So don't want those numbers share you, but keeping that under control. And just a rough estimate, we have about $70,000 left to finish up some things that we have to do.
I just want to announce we do, are in the process of having on triple that ice machine, So we're wanting to get that solved.
So we're moving ahead, moving forward. And I do wanna thank Rita and Craig and, Kerry was the controller for making that happen.
We work together and we got it. So stay tuned.
Thank you for the exploit, Jonathan and CP 5. Thank you for the explanation around the budget or restaurant.
I'm a little confused. And I think I figured it out, but I wanted to ask.
So the district responsible for proving the budget.
But the budget that you received, you decided not to change. And you would just roll out the restaurant improvements.
Over time as opposed to how the budget was laid in.
Do you understand what I'm asking? So I'm kind of curious why you didn't change the budget.
If you do, you want going to do what was working. Yeah, we want we didn't have the figures to be able to do that.
That's all I can say that you did not have.
The numbers you need to be able to figure out if we had 3 servers. What we had to do.
We will not hire. I don't remember what we had in the 15 servers. Until we have that.
Yeah, But Jerry. Did that based on this formula? And that's what we had to go with.
So, so, so I, as I read about this, on, on various committee reports, etc.
I'm new to the, to the top. I jumped into this in the middle of And my understanding was that the restaurant community, I'll call the community.
I'm not sure if that's what it was, came up with 3 proposals. And then the.
And we're unclear it is who chose which of those 3 proposals to include in the budget. Not sure who did it.
It's a little confusing. And then what was presented in the budget. Was approved by the district.
And so It's a little confusing based on what I heard. You talk about versus more like right on the house.
Person is telling you to explain how the budget got All I can say is it is complicated. One thing about it is that the proposal, by is made by the general manager in September.
Is a is a draft and then we get the pieces. So that's basically what happened in the draft.
And the proposal that the CFO, with was so ridiculous, we knew that if we could, he, on a 12 month period.
But we have, should be. Yes, the rest of our committee chair should be speaking, but, well, there's such a thing as soft.
I mean, there's such things, maybe you can't get to shoot that fire for the bartender harder than we needed.
End of the new year. We had promised that we would fully fund the restaurant for the year. So that's what we did.
And that's what we told manager. So we tell them these are the hours we would like the restaurant to be open.
And management determine how many people that meant and what wages. Because we don't know what anybody makes.
If we knew we can ourselves, you know, gone through and change the numbers. So we have an agreement.
In office meeting with the entire board and Jerry counts and John. That's what we thought was going forward.
When an, manager's budget came out. September eighth That's not what was in there.
Instead. What was explained to us is we decided, decided to fund the restaurant at the same level that it had been the prior year.
It was not funded at the same level. When we went through and looked at it, and I looked at the reductions.
In the number of hours, part-time hours, it was the, it was 871 h reduced, which was the equivalent of a 20 h week server part-time server.
We didn't have enough people working in the restaurant to start with. That's why they were rarely open.
And all the complaints we got from people that they weren't open. So we knew that. Wasn't gonna work and that's what was in the managers budget.
Then we have model one and model 2. Yeah, Jerry had prepared to give us 2 options. The one model was only funding a restaurant.
For what we announced. That those are the numbers in that month. That's the one we accepted that we adopted.
The second one was supposed to be increasing the restaurant hours personally. So it's supposed to be a middle ground.
But for some reason it costs more. Then the cost of that was higher and the subsidy went a bit higher.
So you do that one out right away. So we have less our choices were. More than what we thought we needed.
But wanted and for less than what we have. And so that was the choice we made. And the promise we make to you when we did that.
Was that we would roll out these changes gradually. We would. We are going, the expenses we incur are going to increase as the revenue, in curve occurs.
We're not going to go out and hire a bunch of people to stand around and look at each other.
And have the restaurant open you know from don to don't they're doing a little.
We're hoping that they can get the hours increased care for dinner at least pretty soon. That hasn't happened yet.
It was based on a shop that were hiring and some other things. So it's going well.
So we're going to be or below budget, but we expect to be below budget. And then ask you 2 question.
6. Yes.
Not a follow-up. I wanted to chat briefly about the cash flow. Can't explain. I think I understand what you're And my question is who's going to do all that work?
Because you're taking in out of the HGH side. And staff that they have. Now it sounds like you're gonna hire your own staff to do all this.
If you could just talk a little bit about your plans there.
Well, initially, we've gone through some phases. So initially what we proposed, we came with a couple of plans to the, to HG as we've been through the last 6 months.
One was. Leaving pretty much anything in place the way it is, or chart would look just like it does now.
The employees would stay just like they are now. And the difference would be that we wanted to convert the clubhouse manager position.
Over to a district manager. And we wanted to hire a district manager. Because there are people out there that very experience and know how to run a district.
A special district operates very, very differently. Than an HOA. And a lot of the mistakes that have been made over time have been become a lack of understanding like that and So we wanted to replace that position with the district manager, have the cost centers all record under that person.
And then have that district manager. Report so that HDMD board. So our proposal was HPA, you control the Homeworks Association.
You keep your orange chart the way it is. And you go through your CDR and then you change the channel, your general manager controls everybody underneath that, all the maintenance and all those people.
And then the district manager is controlling the cost center. That was the relatively easy part we thought.
When we were discussed when we were negotiating. And I know I said before, but. Again, this was HG's proposal, not they brought that to us September first.
3 their journey and said my clients have asked would you, consider it correctly? The employees who directly served the district.
And. And said that we need, we need your answer on that before we can tell you.
When we can respond to your proposed management agreement. They ask for, the management agreement with changes that we propose.
So we had done that and we gave them a kind of a time line to try and get that over.
So we had done that and we gave them a, kind of a timeline to try and get that oversolved, And so they were saying they couldn't respond to us on that timeline.
So that's what we started working on there. Doing that. Cause there are a ton of things to consider.
And I'm kind of surprised that some of those things were at the meetings, the joint meeting and and on Friday.
Because we went through that process. So we did research to make sure. That we could transfer.
Employees on that they wouldn't become ever than employees that it wouldn't change their methods, that we would be allowed to use a PDO just like HTA does now.
So, I believe they started that in 2,019. Yep, it's a public employee organization.
And so the reason they were developed is because, small businesses. Don't have the opportunities to offer medical insurance and benefits for their employees that larger companies can get.
They can get a better deal because there's more people in them. So by having a, organization, that's the way a cooler employees from lots of different companies.
There are lots of different companies. So they get better. You're offering them better benefits.
We can even use the same PBO. I don't think we will because of the significant increase in costs.
Last year and when we asked about it we just never really got any good answers. That for that, This the current PBO is taking care of workman's time.
And so that was the reason given for the increasing cost. But it can take our entire work. Allocation, throw it in there and we're still paying more than that.
So. The only other explanations we got was that they do training and, they can advertise for, so we'll save money on indeed to add to their $500.
But we don't take in the. I'm, my understanding is that the website they have they advertise on it's not that great.
So we're still advertising. So we haven't benefited from any of that. So I'm sure, we can find a better, lower cost PBO.
There are GDOs that specialize in, handling special districts. And so I'm sure we can do a better job with that.
So that was our that was our original plan was just to change the reporting structure. That way we have some control over how the district properties are managed.
We get a situation where someone comes to us like you do, you come to our knees and you say, why?
Why can't you mix this and why can't this be done?
And the way it works now is I have to ask. And at the time, the general manager, our request saying, you know, Okay, yeah, this year.
Gee, and they keep the outdoor pool open past 3 pm on fourth of July. You know, that, this place closes down like a ghost town on holidays and that's when the kids are out of school.
And your families come to visit and people want to use the facilities. And so I try to say, just, Just don't want the date.
You can have the clubhouse close to 3. You know, that's the plan. The, the, and security income live later.
Well, the answer is no. And that's a good reason to talk about the key card and system.
So we don't have any control over that. Yeah, remember the district owns the properties and is responsible for its management.
So if we're in a position where we have to ask free, And the people that we hired to manage the properties can say yes or no.
Which they knew. So that doesn't work. Yes, we have question.
I'm sorry, Daniel, you gave me a lot more information than I wanted. I'm gonna ask for a short answer because I don't think I heard an answer to my question.
Are you planning to share the expenses, share the employees that exist today? Or, your own employees. That was really adjusted.
No, we've been talking about splitting the employees. Which is what we were discussing with HG and that was always.
Just like they said, we, the employees that work exclusively for the district and we said yes that's what we were working on.
So we're talking about a split. There are very few areas where we have shared. Resources and those that come up.
And I think that the background took over the bulk of the discussion. And they're not really significant issues.
I mean, we're talking about accounting. Or they're talking about security. So you're talking about take a couple.
You know, just take. We're paying for those people from the district. So, and the back office operations, which is payables and accounting.
On the cash flow. And that's a shared function. That's what I was specific very specifically asking about.
Yes, there's a shared function. So when you look at that, we either have to allocate one of those budget positions.
Over to the district. Or well we have to do that anymore. So which we need to allocate, whatever that percentage of time is, and that's what we.
Last meeting will be sure what the. What the wages were. The district was paying about 28% of the overall wages.
So then you would figure we're gonna take if we're splitting things, 28% of the employees.
Did you have split like that? So. HGA was saying that they can't lose one of their accounting people.
They need 4 separate people.
I plan it out that they used to learn the entire office with poor people. They and there was a time when they had 2 people in them.
Let me send that. They don't do payroll anymore. They used to do all the We keep farming out these. Indies and we don't use any people that we keep increasing people.
And that's what I said since. Do, 2,018, we've added 18 people.
Now, 2 of them, well, 4 total, are attributable to the district. 2 are in the restaurant.
And 2 are under Now, I've watched that. The number of employees. Grow in rows and rams.
And nobody can tell me why. And I've been to those budget workshops and I've asked every time we go over the headcount.
The call of course has not gotten any bigger. It's still the same size it was before. We don't have anymore.
We still have the same number of residents. It hasn't changed. Why is it growing and growing?
Why are there 11 people working in under administration now when they're used before and not that long ago.
So I, we can't do anything about HGA and how it manages that. But what we can do is we can look at the district and we can say, what are we paying for here?
How many people are there? What are they doing? How can we make that more efficient? And then I think when it's separated.
It'll be easier for you to ask the question. And say, why do we need a hundred people to
Yeah, the
Have you wear us? We have a new organization, that's, agreed to by health association in the district.
I'm kind of the frontier for instance. The groundskeepers. It takes 2 and a half.
People. We want, we want. 2 people on our payroll. And we want them to pay the dis the association for that other half and they bill us.
Okay. And just split and share whatever there's extra work. And then we would pay the association for instance, It might be such a thing that we can't handle snowing move around the clubhouse.
We have been, but. If we could, then the association would pay us, the hours that they, that they are helping us.
We're already doing that in lots of ways.
When custodial is working here, they charge us. So we could either have our own, be able to set up the schedule more to our or we could.
Still, and charges the only position I see that really need help with, because you do have to add 3 people.
I mean, you can't have one person, you could form it out. You got those choices.
You're right. So we would form it out to HDA. That would be one way to do it.
We can get back to that. I'll come back to the head count in the sack.
I wanted to cover, it was such a big issue in our joint. To resolve the the difficulty between HGA and HTMD.
And HDA proposed a lease option. And so I just wanted to give you the rationale why you don't wanna do that.
So what like this option is what was suggested is that we lease all of the district property to HG.
And then they'll manage it however they want. We just, we would just get, rent check basically and no different than when we found out the restaurant year ago.
So.
The first reason I don't want to do that. Besides the fact that the last 6 months will then waste.
Okay, have people yelling at me for nothing.
We have HTML has a right to substantially the wages that HGA charges to HDMD.
And the reason we have that right is because we reimburse them for the actual cost. This is the only insight you're going to get into employee costs.
HDA will not tell you. They do not tell their own directors. They told you that at the last joint meeting.
They know that that's not legal. I've given them the statue. 1, one director knows All directors after now.
If one direction gets the report. An email all the directors help to get it. You can't exclude directors from the meeting.
They do. They exclude directors from personnel policy meetings. When they go in the executive to accept that session.
You can go with the executive. Session to keep us out. You can't keep the direct.
So.
I think that the Since HDA has refused to honor. Is it? District's oversight and policy rights.
We tried. We came in new. We asked questions. We offered some suggestions.
We wanted to try. We'll just shut down. Nothing needs to change. It's been this way for 40 years.
Leave it alone. Same thing with the account team. It's been this way for 17 years, Jerry counts.
It's fine. So. We have in our management. We've contracted with them.
They're an agent of HGMD. And they're supposed to do what we like.
So just saying I've never run into a situation like this ever. Where an agent is saying we don't have to listen to the principal.
We, we can do what we want. You have nothing to say. We have we have made complaints about performance.
No, not little tiny complaints. We're talking about huge things, major, contract issues.
Anyone responsible? So if we were to lease the property. They want and that's what they want us to do because they want us to turn it into a landlord.
They don't want us to have that right to ask questions or to look into those things. Okay, that's the reason I ran.
For this board because I knew we would have that the ability to do that. To get some insight. I have gone to the budget workshops every single year.
I had asked about employee wages. I asked when they moved. To 2 employees on the contracts department and the wages with $219,000.
And when I asked John Race, I'll have Jerry answer that. And when Jerry answered it, he said, well, I'm not sure that number is right.
But I'm reading it off their budget. We, you never get a response when you're talking about these costs.
We hear. What employees may. From outside sources. And I told Joe, and that in a meeting that we have right after we were electing.
I say you're so busy trying to hide this from the community. But John Ray himself. Put a review on indeed.
When he was operations manager and said he made a hundred $89,000 a year. He did that.
So, and other people figured out we hear background from other ways. So why can't the I mean, we, we sound actually my wife, Caroline had been on the board.
She sat when Calvin White left she sent the board in. And she said, this might be a good time now that Calvin slept.
Cares several property management companies that Manage over at You might wanna talk to them because they're telling us that the going for general manager for an HOA.
Is between 90 and a hundred $20,000.
No, you think it's resident she should be able to ask? Why? Working twice the high end.
You need to be able to ask these questions. That's what we're trying to get for you.
The second case. Okay. The second reason is that we all want HDA to manage the district.
Honestly, and they're not competent. We have nothing but mismanagement since we were elected.
It's gone on. Where we raise issues over a number. As I said, the capital expenditures.
We're just ridiculous. We, we talked about it before. If we if we had accepted what the contracts department did well we did we improved it we had to withdraw later.
We would have purchased an outdoor cooler. With no haul off of the old. Freezer and no installation.
And it was a cooler, not a freezer. So we ended up paying to cancel the whole thing.
And Robin took on that project yourself and we had a crank help and just jumped in there found the right people to get the right equipment and we completely.
The entire project. Hda staff, sign the contract. For more than twice the highest the CEO spending authorization had ever been.
And when we lost control. When John Ray specifically told me that the key card access system to the clubhouse was approved because it was in the merger.
They were going forward with them. We lowered the spending authority. We have to. We, changed our policy that any contract tend to be signed by the president and the secretary.
And what happened? HDA staff didn't comply with that. They just, in the next project, they didn't even have a country.
They just went ahead without asking. So we have to do something. The other issue is You know, a lot of you have been.
Ben at these meetings for years, you know, I see you. We raised a lot of the same issues over and over and don't get response.
My question is, How long at what point when you're when you're warning somebody. That what they're doing, You know, it doesn't stop calling the statute.
When does that refusal to correct the problem become intentional? Intentional. And that's where we're at here.
HQ has been served. With a civil, it's a federal civil soon. For 2 accounts, the Federal Falls Flames, And that is for the camera limits.
TPP one. I put this the documentation. So you can save yourself on your web page. So you didn't look specifically to see what's there.
The loan was received in April, 2020. That was the positive into the HDA operating. They knew at the time and, Grant Miller was the controller at the time and said.
The loan would be for in 75% will spend on ages before October. Phone.
Okay.
If they have done nothing. We would have been in a better position. The money was an operating account if they had just let it sit there and done nothing.
We would have been position to argue that the money was spent on wages. In an operating account, you would be able to tell $1 from another.
But that's not going to happen. They transfer the money. Or December, 30 first, 2020 out she shows HGA cash bank account.
Call, GPP, Totally the entire amount of $1,058,700.
HK could not have spent the money. You can't spend the loan proceeds. On wages when it's still in the bank.
By transferring that money, there is no argument that we properly spent those wages. It was just mismanagement.
Nothing, nothing else. The forgiveness application was done in July. 2021.
Aca, President Joe Begin applied for the loan forgiveness. And it's under penalty, perjury.
And you're certifying in that document. That HDA is complying with the requirements. And it and said that it's spent over 2.1 million dollars on wages before October third.
The application required the truth of payment must be attacked. Jerry said they attached they, cash disbursement they went to the PEOPLE as proof that the wages would pay.
But that cash this person, it came from the operating account, not the PBP proceeds account. So the loan was forgiven.
And in August, 2021, the balance is still the entire loan amount. They earmarked those proceeds as PPP lines.
As I said, it's an operating account that it's not earmarked. You don't know $1 from another.
You pay the wages you covered. But by transferring that out in the air, Now we have a loan forgiveness based on the family.
We take wages. Of that amount before October, 2020 and we proved that we didn't do it because we got an account at an account mark.
PPP proceeds.
So when we talk about being warned. This comes to mind. We can go through and we can learn.
We have several people raise this issue. In September, twentieth, 21, budget finance committee meeting.
The members asked for a formal written opinion on permissible uses for the loan proceeds. There are none because everybody's supposed to have any local Trump seats at that point.
They're supposed to be spent. In 2020. So Jerry Camp said he would talk to the auditors and the attorneys.
In April, 2022. At the budget finance committee meeting. This is where Ruben Graham presented there automatically for and they went through a page by page.
Bill Archibald and, Raynash question whether HGA needed the mom, which was a requirement on the loan application and the same financial uncertainty.
And whether H whether SBA could come back and audit HDA at any time. And they, and they specifically said yes, it could.
You're 6 years, it could come back in audit and want that money back that wasn't properly spent.
So, and that's when Canvas. Kinda, you know, you know, She said, well, gee, I read for the loan to be forgiven.
It had to be spam. They have to be spent on wages before October, July. How can we be talking about what's suspended on if we spend it on wages?
Jerry count said that the risk that SPA went on it was low and minimized initiatives.
So when you're talking about where we're at with this lawsuit. Which this fraternal damages.
So they take the amount of the loan. They want the SBA pay the 100. And interest.
And I'll apply that by 3 times. And then look at the adjournment, and costs, and the penalties, in Bob.
Let's get very easily, we have 4 million dollars lost. That we were exposed to. So here's the first page of the little application.
And if you look on it, this is the important part. It's chipped the box that says it's a C core.
Well, it's not a C quarter. A C-court is a for profit business.
Walmart's a I'm trying to be a Caroline said I should file as a nonprofit, but I Explain as far as IRS is concerned.
I have a profit. Good. HDA is a not not for profit corporation. It sends out another financial order of the same honor report says that we're not nonprofit, we qualify as tax exempt as an A.
Under section 5.8 it files 1128 counts return There's little boxes on here you can chat.
You can be an escort, you can be an LFC. There's lots of boxes.
There's no box. We're in 1128. Or, for a 501 c 4, which is the only taxes that we can, we can possibly qualify.
So that's the basis for these false claims. Lawsuits is like we were not qualified in the first place.
That's back to the budget. Ruben Brown, very nicely though sent during the same meeting that they helped HDA do this.
So hopefully, the, somebody's subregating, a little bit in Brown. Who said they have documentation support what they did at the time and that their other clients had done the same thing.
So hopefully that will happen, but this is a situation that we're going to have to deal with.
And since this happened. You know, a few weeks. After we were criticized that our our reach a contract claim that's gonna crash the property values and keep people from being able to sum their properties.
Because they won't be able to get a mortgage and we explained. Our NASA has no monetary damages or asking for specific performance.
That means give us the numbers that we want. For Tell us who, who you pay, what amount so we can make sure this all acts up.
And then. We want, we want to have management control over the properties. That's what we're asking for.
So any, mortgage company, looks like that. It's gonna realize that there's no there's no judgment to be have there.
This last dude is not the same. Just like the, Just like when we had the wrongful depth plane after the gas expansion, that's kind of lost it people worrying about mortgage companies.
And so what they'll do is I'll look at your capital reserves and see if you have enough capital reserves to pay a judgment.
If you did, let's know, no problem. My name is I hardly ever disagree with Daniel, but I think you're, I think you're understanding the exposure that the residents here and other guards.
I entered it up it's more than 4.2 million dollars and start out with a million 700,000.
And that's troubled and then you add to that. Penalty which is between 11,000 22,000 And one of the big items is what's called the relayer's fee.
Kind of file this lawsuit, Aro is in Colorado. We also suit 39 nature races, Florida.
Yeah, I know he's sued and subtle with the NATO ring in California called rashless because the government chose not to intervene in the suit.
This cut of 40 recovers. Is between 25 and 30% of what's recovered from all of these.
And he's got an attorney in Houston that really knows what he's doing. I've read the complaint.
39 pages. And it's very well written, it's extremely thorough. Because your entire history of the CARES Act and the PPP program.
And the common denominator is a misrepresentation at the time of application. This is a type of corporate And the, said, I think the Heather Gardens.
Pro. But they also just represented the status of the loan when they apply for forgiveness. Everyone that application for forgiveness was submitted in July of 2021.
By Joe Bacon. There was no board action taken. There's no authorization by the board.
We've heard today about motions and Bordeaux and so forth. A lot of for. 5 forward or came without any board action whatsoever and with a false application.
I've been working on that. Forgiveness aspect, I never dreamed that the application for the loan itself was a self project, but I thought that the application for forgiveness is And so what I asked for, were copies of the Q Bank records for a special bank account.
They've been set up to manage that. I thought with those bank records I could see where the money was.
Yeah, when they, and then response, off the board is you can have, those are private. Well, there's a statute that applies.
So I follow the lawsuit. Another lawsuit, which all I'm asking for to do is to order them to produce.
So there's no money involved, but it's a file, If they wrongly choose to provide the record.
I'll donate the $500 to the foundation and it for the But they're also pay my attorney see that they lose.
This week, the Colorado Court of POs issue, what's called the Mandy, the Senteck.
The Iraq or district court. With the orders that the actual bank records itself, our COVID records that they have to provide, don't want.
So I'm going to get those records and I think they'll show. And I think what we're going to show on the Chipman Jerry House said on May ninth that all of the TTP log funds have been transferred into the operating account.
Spent for that account during that period of until October third Here's not telling the truth. Good start.
Starting with summer of 2020. You look at the bathrooms and these are all available to you.
The balance shoot shows that $518,000 Plus, that loan was deposited into the key bank.
It's the only money that we're into the None of it was spent for the operating account.
The reason for that is if you're a homeowners association. Didn't fall off at all during the Joe, they said in April, 2022 that a 2022 that at 2022 that at 2022 that at 2022 that at 2022 that at 2022,000, and, 29, Looking at the lower it was a windfall and it gets
perfect government. Some of the residents here in other guards said, So, in addition to fraud and the application, and, and, and, loan forgiveness.
That is one is now exposed. Us through a 4.2 plus And the reason that they modes on known is that the other thing that's recoverable By this gentleman from Florida, All of his costs, all his occurrences are in on top of this.
Yeah, and if you leverage this thing all the way through jury trial We're talking about probably hundreds of thousands of college.
I think that it's gonna be a lot of, more association including. Where's your gardens also a defendant?
We're gonna be scrambling to try to sell this case. And they should be because they're the, like I say, the plane is well written.
The facts are there. And if they go to a jury trial, it's pretty much predictable what a jury is gonna do.
Yeah, At least, documents on our website for you so you can go through and see on the balance sheets that show where the money was moved and there's a spreadsheet at the end that kind of shows how it's transferred.
I also put the budget. And finance committee meeting that was on there when Bill Archibald, Great Nash.
And can't start to another, really raise the flag of this issue. And I mean, they were asking serious questions.
And then I think it was the last question that Bill. Archibald apps which was where some of these some of these this money was anything we reimbursed to the district.
And they said, no, Jerry said no. And it can accept we're selling these wages paid to the people that work at the clubhouse to the golf course.
Yes, did you reimburse the district now? And Bill said, and you got, the, inverse for these wages, because you got the PPP from seats, then you got We HDMD reimbursed you fully, that money and then you got the dues to pay for it.
So I put that recording on because as it got to that point, that's one very And, I think we talked about this enough that you put the stop line just like they do every time we bring up an issue like we do every time we bring up an issue like we did at the joint meeting they don't want to hear we talked about it and the issue like we get at the joint meeting they don't want to
hear. We talked about it enough that people asking questions, they don't want to hear. We talked about it enough that people asking questions are going to be happy.
No matter what they answer is they can't. So that recording is on there on the website. Do you listen to awesome?
A couple of minutes just talking about litigation. That's happening to kind of bring people up the speed. You know, okay.
Hi, my name is Lori. I'm, general manager. That was fair on January, 20. Okay.
So my name is Laura. I'm the general manager that was hired on January 20. I just give you a little in my background.
In, well, not too far back, but, about 3 years ago I worked for the John Buck companies, they were the number one office development.
And we'll get a 6 block billing. And if you're familiar with this for grocery too, that was part of all of it.
So. They're, 7 whole operation, higher people, and manage upwards and then we're gonna stay with which one of the investors they solve it and everybody.
So I wish I could anymore. Then, I went to work for related companies and for Steve and Ross and he's, probably the largest developer in New York.
He had project on West Palm B, New York. He had a project on, called City Place.
And so I went down there for 3 and a half years until I couldn't take recruited to come to.
Denver here, which I absolutely love and that's I've been here for 15 years.
I managed Palmar for 13 years. Which included much ballistic than had aid joy's, kind of, townhouses retail office, 1,200 residents.
So, that's kind of my background until, they talk to you that come in here.
The, What I want to do is just give you a little insight. From a different perspective, the PPP.
The children don in Florida who is suing us and it's going across the country and soon all the H away this It's main thing is that they don't make money so therefore they're not eligible.
We do need mine. It's not a lot of money because the money is just coming off of our investments.
So we don't count as a nonprofit. And therefore that's not something that you can, be held accountable for.
They were in that regard. So I might appear, Daniel to argue what it is. I'm just gonna stay back because I've only been here for 14 days.
Yeah, It's all But there's still no problem. I am telling you, but our terms probably, I'm not here to debate it.
I'm not really here to use your questions. Tom, I know you're still in this and this.
You're right. But the, you know, the point is, I'm gonna give you this and what I would encourage you to do is that but I'm not the expert.
Will give you the wish I can. And then the talk will be, with the other association and you come to your own decision.
So. Going back to that. And you're right. So you get people.
So they can make for 15 to 30% of whatever they can recover in now that they get trouble damages.
So it's, it's a significant Yeah, both the
The SDA and the Department of Justice came in. Mayo, 23 and all.
They didn't find anything that they said was a concern. No, So, they, so they came, came out and had no findings and have not come back.
Oh.
Right in our, we're still in the discovery phase. You know, this, we're responsible to, in the discovery phase.
You know, this, we're responsible to, in terms of all of that, by March first.
So. At this point, there's nothing to update to anybody until that occurs. And until they respond.
And this is that, you know, this is like an 80 day happen. There are people who want they're fishing to see if they can get a piece of that money they can recover and they make I'm a single one.
I was involved with AVA. I was involved with, AVA, right now and that was one.
People have that issue. Fortunately, you didn't have a. Okay.
Just get back to the other laws. What happened there was that on December, the 20 eighth, the court of appeals, reverse third city and held that the plans claim of the HIs bank workers should not have been the dismissal of the suit.
And so they came back and said, this is not. They're not giving them one way or another.
They're just laying in that the, the issue in terms of providing these records are continue on in terms of what it is that can be provided and or Theresa and now working on the response of that thing.
Anytime you say you're even attorneys, can't say what it is. Certainly don't want to make the case or the people who are selling this for 4 million dollars and the damages for that.
So You need to stay tight on non, amount to what that is. So that is what I have for you in terms of, you know, one perspective, I honestly can't answer questions.
But I, I can smile, you know, I can tell you that, I have enjoyed working here.
I love it. I've met so many great people. And then a couple that haven't been a graceful.
You know, and as you know, and as you know, that there's a whole different way to do with this.
You know, as you know, that there's a whole different economy, different people within, you know, this community when you had 40,000 people.
And, I enjoyed solving problems, but I mostly enjoyed working with all you. This is for me.
This is Okay, we watch the time because I'm great to show you. And Larry, I appreciate you showing up.
I wish. They work at HGA, but since one of their members or Larry Dell or somebody, but I understand the information.
You provided it's what you got from them. One of the things you said. Was it the Government, the Department of Justice and SDA came in here during summer of 23 starting May and in July.
After they audit this and they found there was nothing wrong. Well, that's not perfect. The government found out about the claims that are in this lawsuit in August of 2022.
S. But the girl was notified at the time. It wasn't unsealed until October of 2023.
So when the government showed up, Department of Justice, the SDA, when they showed up in 2,023.
They already knew the answer to the questions that they were asking. Jerry Palace and John right.
Jerry didn't know that they knew like the answers and John didn't know that they knew the answer.
But they had it all from, they knew exactly what they were looking at. They did not bought it.
Alone or any animal below and just ask questions and they made a decision whether or not we're gonna intervene in the lawsuit.
Sign in the district court or whether they didn't need to intervene. They chose not to intervene.
Which meant that they had both faith or enough faith in the lawyers who were already handling that lawsuit. But the Department of Justice didn't need to take it over.
So now that lawsuit is allowed to go forward, cases on sealed in October, it started serving and it's after that.
So what happened in the summer of 2023 was not clean bill upheld by any stretch of the imagination.
And the Department of Justice and SDA knows exactly what or not. Thank you.
Yeah, the Department of Justice looks at it and they decide they want to intervene as Tom said that also because they can file criminal charges because these are crimes both of these are crimes so they can choose to pursue the criminal charges or they can let the civil suit go forward.
So some of the like that there were a few that went kind of crazy. You know, quadruple the number of employees they have, things like that, that's obvious, you know, obvious fun.
And so they decided a couple of those they were gonna interview file criminal charges and some of those I think there's one in California.
Than spending on that.
Okay.
You have the same again. I just wanna make sure that the folks that are here and folks that are on Zoom and both will go pass off some of this information.
This PPP loan program. Is being touted as the biggest fraud in a generation.
800 billion dollars. Was fraudulently given. Not all of it. Some small businesses actually got a loan to they deserved.
Don't you think that this guy is getting 15 to 30% deserves a big hand for bringing this.
Because the government said, We're not gonna do anything about it. If you want to do it, go ahead and do it.
He went and got some good lawyers and thank God he did. He's taking care of it. And shame on anybody that took that money, Awesome.
Yeah.
Shame on anyone who takes money for I do not feel that the people And, gardens. The HGA or the HGMG.
I don't believe that either of them. Took this money. Let's look at the movie stars.
Let's look at the churches. Let's look at the large organizations that took money. That should not have been going to them.
Maybe there are there was somebody here at Heather Gardens who brought up the issue. Of us taking this money somehow.
Illegally using it somehow illegally. I don't believe that's the case. They use this money to pay people who were here in the pandemic.
They paint them on the extra. I think it was $3 an hour because they are being exposed to COVID.
Maybe nobody in this room believes what I have to say. Okay, so, so, okay, so, the news club here will take, yes, okay, and, and they work your course.
Because they came into a room, they came into a building, they cleaned buildings and so on where they didn't know what they didn't know what was coping where they were going to catch COVID when they weren't been kept COVID.
I believe the people here. He's either an HGA or HGMD have been acting out of good things.
I do not believe that they were acting in a Roger webinar with any of the kind of things.
I wanted to go over real quick. Some of the issues that we have, regarding the employees, why we were trying to get the information from HGA about the wages who they paid, how much so that we could verify what that was.
And you're looking at a page on the 2024 budget. And this is just an example of what we dealt with during the budget workshop.
So the golf department is here and it's got 5 full time employees. It's had 5 full time employees for the last 30 years.
So maybe in March, HGA fired the, golf course superintendent, the assistant superintendent.
And, but, just saying that, Carol, who was a supervisor over, was gonna take over that those duties.
And then they also replace actually they said they replace. The 2 of them with 3 people under roads and grounds.
So when we're trying to figure out you know, who these people are. And John Ray and Jerry counts could come up with the down titles.
And I said before, they were gonna work on it overnight, came back in the morning. And they still, are having trouble telling us who they are.
So they came back and this is what they told us. There's a golf manager. We all agree to that that we have a off-Brow.
2 groundskeepers and a mechanic. Well, I, you know, I can use one hand and add that up and see that's only for.
We paid for 5 full time employees. This was the first or chart we got. This is what we got.
In this is a response it says on September 6. That's because this is what we asked for in response to.
Them journeys email saying, would you be willing to directly hire the cost of employees? And we said, yeah, can you send us another charge so we know, you know, what we're dealing with.
So this is what we got. So under both, you seem to have break over the golf. And it says, trophro employees for part time.
So we looked at that and we're like, well, okay, that's even less than for this one.
Where's the other full time employees? So then we got after the work budget workshop, we got this.
How they updated it and sent it to us. I'm sorry, little, on the, things coming up the date.
It was right after the budget workshop. It was that evening or the next day. She updated it and sent it to us.
So here we have golf again. There's still one there. Now we have 6 part time employees instead of 4.
And then, so that's one, the, So they go over here and we add, they, Identify these people in roads and grounds and the full time people were paying for under the health department.
So there we have again, 2, 3, 4. Well, you know, okay. It doesn't add up to 5.
So as I said. This is the email that we got September first asking. You know, directly higher the So.
This is the problem. So because this came after September. This is this is the problem.
There's He's number 5 and they don't want to identify him. There's no problem there.
They don't want to put off there. Because we've been talking about separating the employees.
And they don't wanna lose him. They don't want him under the golf department. Bill Archibald at the at the workshop budget workshop. They'll arch it all.
Could understand why. The explanation was for taking the mechanic. It was over here. In the golf department.
And why did you, why did you transfer that mechanic over there to roads and grounds? And then he took the brand.
And you put him over there and And you can understand that. That's because he didn't know that they were clear and talking about splitting the employees that want the mechanic that had experienced over there and roads and grounds and they wanted to take a brand new guy without experience and pop him on the hearing doll.
So that if we split the employees That's what we're getting. That's why they get one more parent here.
They want they want to keep them and they don't want him designated over there. These were the problems we're having when we're saying, you know, how post this working.
So now if we add Harold in, okay, now we got 5 full time employees. That makes you feel better.
And then the next problem is down here at the bottom. Or you see.
Well, the little thing, there's $53,000. That's a charge out from roads and grounds.
And when I say, well, what's that for? We're paying for that. Groundskeepers were paying for the equipment mechanic were paying for hair of the supervisor.
What's this charge out for? And that's when John Ray told me, well, that's not Martella, he's Peril's supervisor and So now, I'm saying, why are we getting charged?
Hours for Harold if he's our full time employee. So none of these numbers made sense. And that's what caused us to say, okay, now.
Now we need more than Just a. A list of job description, on what's the pay range, which is what we have been asking for for budget purposes.
Now, now just consider this part of our audit. We need to know. Substantially what we got built for.
That's where we're at now and that's what the lawsuits about to get that information.
This is a This is just a chart, and how it's increased. And I know that we We pray we can make controversy every time we do anything, actually.
Our last board meeting. I suggested that we have one of the security guys sit in the lobby downstairs.
Oh, that won't work. And what was the response? Well, 200 people, at least 2, maybe 2 and a half, more people to be able to do.
And so I was trying to remind. Is for those of us that we're here. 10 years ago.
When we used to have Well, originally there were 5 security guards. Scary officers for ever. I remember when they increased it to 6.
And the rationale was to have somebody available in the clubhouse. On Saturday and Sunday because we have so many people here for the church services.
There had been a rash of violence against churches and they felt like we needed somebody to be standing out there.
So that was approved. But the years don't lie and people forget what the rationale was. So I'm saying, have the security out there.
That's one level for anyway. That's where that position came from. Then they increased the one more position because they decided, you know what?
We should, we have 2 people now during the day on the weekends. That's good. But we should have another guy at night.
Sure, backup. So over the 9,000 h, we could have 2 people. Every 5,000 okay idea.
I'm we increasingly got another security officer. So, but now we have 9. And. And I was corrected.
At the last meeting. We don't have 9, there's 8. And then it's, well, it's 8 plus one.
Because there's a manager. So the same HDA director. So, are muted and created just a fiasco and a board meeting when we asked to use the security managers office.
For an office for us. Because we don't have access to the management offices anymore. And just raised town saying, oh, we haven't had that.
We have to have that office. It had to be there. It used to be, it was the clubhouse.
Assistance Manager's office all these years. Nobody ever approved to get it to security anyway.
So I said we got 2 security officers working at a time. Why? Do they need 2 separate offices?
Privacy. Yes, that privacy. What if he needs to talk to an officer or talk to a resident?
Well, there's only 2 of them, yeah. One of them to go out and patrol while the other one is talking privately.
That's what they're supposed to be doing anyway. So when I get all that argument that they have to have 2 offices.
So somebody could be sitting in there. And I send you to the same. Great, Brendan, up.
I say, well, if you can sit down there, why can't you sit in front of the door?
What different does it make? And then we get this ridiculous argument about he's safer in the blockchain.
She usually shoot the first person they see. Well, that was securities for. I give me one really one the first person to be the 16 year old lady working at the front death.
Or, you know, I'm glad they're protected back there. Yeah, he wants to know what they're coming into.
It's a ridiculous argument. They don't they're not logical. It's a ridiculous argument.
They don't they're not logical when they do this stuff. We get used to having more people.
When you have the people, you find something for them to do. What we need to do is we need to start looking at what's necessary and where can we turn that down?
And I think this is a good, put this head count. I mean, between 2,018 to 2,023 to add 18 people.
It's just outrageous. We can add people to maintenance, the buildings are getting older. I don't think anybody is there question.
But we don't need to have people to administration. They can have computers now. Yeah, 4 people there before, of us paper and council.
I think, you know, we, we can cut some. Here. That's what we're trying to help you with.
One we're trying to get this information and we're moving forward. And that's what I want you to keep in mind.
We're doing it for the benefit of the rest of residents. We We are there with the people coming.
And are almost in tears telling us they can't afford to live here if our dues keep going up.
And so we're trying to do something about it, but this is the biggest, this is the biggest black hole area.
That we have. We can cut other expenses because we know what they are. We We can't do anything about this.
Good.
Thank you. You can learn more questions or comments, Crystal. Sure.
I know I've said this before. These 4 have been doing is looking at our amenities.
That would keeps the value of our properties. Having the amenities. It golf course. The cloud house.
The restroom. Whatever else there is but and if we could get the but I worry. Get those making more money that could help offset your Angel A.
And That's what they're the other thing that they're trying to do with their. Thanks.
I just wanna say I'm watching those restaurant dollars like a You know, we're, I'm working very hard and, I even delivered the contract so it would be in place starting.
Today and tomorrow. So we're working hard and we have your interest at heart. And we can't be, you know, my pop is still that deep either.
I'm at that point too where I may have to move. Or take down a roommate because I can afford the inflation of food, gas, you know, insurance and my H away fees.
But I love Heather Garnels, my friends and neighbors, and we're here working for you as hard as we can.
You wanna quit? I will support you. Thank you. Robin and her community are spending good chunk of money in the restaurant, but If it wasn't to run and they spend a lot more.
On the same equipment. Yes. It was optimized. Actually, say give a shout out to my number friends Maria helps you keep on budget.
Great help just keep on budget and Daniel's doing the legal work on their contracts to save some money on legal fees.
So all these things I mean we are pitching the penny as much as we can and we're getting excellent work for your dollars.
I can't be more pleased with the battleboarding company doing a job for us. Thank you.
Thank you. We're coming folks. We got our our regular meeting is on Thursday at one. We're making to create the, sharing of the clubhouse community.
And, so he might be whining for more people. And so, We'll do that then.
We're also, approving a new, agreement with our attorney. Taking on What's called this on call.
So we won't have those ongoing fees for attending meetings. We'll just ask for ask for something when we need it, somebody, reducing cost.
Thank you.
Yes